From:                              Murray  [Murray@argusheating.co.nz]

Sent:                               Wednesday, 25 March 2009 9:47 a.m.

To:                                   MikeDrummo@gmail.com; Fleur Simpkin; daarons@dml.co.nz; patrick.ashby@righthemisphere.com; steve@riggingshop.co.nz; blochbm@igrin.co.nz; kerry-c@xtra.co.nz; gregcathcollins@yahoo.co.nz; paramata1@xtra.co.nz; daveygj@clear.net.nz; Bruce.Davy@Forestresearch.co.nz; hamish@a-class.org.nz; sales@ericksenhonda.co.nz; bmharsant@xtra.co.nz; pyhooper@axtrix.co.nz; thekerrs@farmside.co.nz; rick@LambourneArchitects.co.nz; john.lindsay@silverfernfarms.co.nz; boatworksnz@gmail.com; John & Karen Marshall; w.muntz@xnet.co.nz; marknissen@gmail.com; mikenorton@woosh.co.nz; kevin.percy.electrical@xtra.co.nz; chrisnlee@xtra.co.nz; dsenn@ihug.co.nz; clear-ridge@xtra.co.nz; fdthomson@xtra.co.nz; Ken and Shirls; kitchensbykevin@xtra.co.nz; Benefieldsteve@xtra.co.nz; mncates@xtra.co.nz; samcross@xtra.co.nz; mark.d@xtra.co.nz; zeovitnz@paradise.net.nz; KAYEMANN@ihug.co.nz; tvcam@xnet.co.nz; dana-tenacity@usa.net; kev.mel@xtra.co.nz; e-statics@e-statics.net; Barham@xtra.co.nz

Cc:                                   andy landy; luc dubois; stefano sirri; John Goldsmith; thomas paasch; pieterjan dwarhuis

Subject:                          RE: AW: IACA Ballot on hydrofoils

Attachments:                 A class with bent cboards.JPG

 

Hi All

Our president has already stated that a small amount of lift is acceptable.

By taking the extreme view that all canted and curved foils need to be banned is as unacceptable, as is the proposed ballot of open development of hydrofoils (with two small restrictions).

There is always some middle ground for rules. By extending the present under water width to 1.75 m curved and straight boards would be on equal terms.

 

The photo attached is of an A class in medium winds and is half out of the water on curved foils.

Boats flying completely around the whole course may be impossible but substantial lift can be generated and a strong advantage gained when the right conditions present themselves.

Is it faster? Vote yes and we will find out. Vote no and the committee will have to look at the issue again.

 

 

Mike is correct that a yacht can not be raced in different condition to how it was measured. You will have to assemble the foils during measuring, not a big problem.

 

I am not a lawyer but the meaning of rule I is different if you use the whole rule and not just a part of it

rule 1: "A catamaran is defined as a two-hulled sailing boat with essentially duplicate or mirror image hulls, fixed in parallel positions"

Rule only talks but hulls not other parts of the boat. As it’s an open class any if its not specifically banned then you can use it.

 

I know of at least 4 people that have rudders that attach from the bottom, and three that slide them in from the rear are these legal? No I think not?

It has also been pointed out to me that the hull finishes at the transom so it’s impossible to insert a rudder. Rudders are not inserted but attached, as they are still movable hull appendages they may be illegal under new rule.

To throw a quote back at you mike

What does a measurer do when someone turns up to a regatta with inserted rudders and a protest flag? It will be a mess.

The problem with new rules is that of the literal interpretation of the word, inserted has a defined meaning.

 

I have been asked if Multiple foils are ok  ie have a number of foils on the boat and insert them for different conditions or even have multiple centreboard slots each for a different leg of the course or type of foil.

Sounds legal to me under the new rule.

Also sounds complicated, time will tell if its faster.

 

Cheers Murray

 

 

 

 


From: Mike Drummond [mailto:mikedrummo@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 24 March 2009 20:45
To: Murray ; 'Fleur Simpkin'; daarons@dml.co.nz; patrick.ashby@righthemisphere.com; steve@riggingshop.co.nz; blochbm@igrin.co.nz; kerry-c@xtra.co.nz; gregcathcollins@yahoo.co.nz; paramata1@xtra.co.nz; daveygj@clear.net.nz; Bruce.Davy@Forestresearch.co.nz; hamish@a-class.org.nz; sales@ericksenhonda.co.nz; bmharsant@xtra.co.nz; pyhooper@axtrix.co.nz; thekerrs@farmside.co.nz; rick@LambourneArchitects.co.nz; john.lindsay@silverfernfarms.co.nz; boatworksnz@gmail.com; 'John & Karen Marshall'; w.muntz@xnet.co.nz; marknissen@gmail.com; mikenorton@woosh.co.nz; kevin.percy.electrical@xtra.co.nz; chrisnlee@xtra.co.nz; dsenn@ihug.co.nz; clear-ridge@xtra.co.nz; fdthomson@xtra.co.nz; 'Ken and Shirls'; kitchensbykevin@xtra.co.nz; Benefieldsteve@xtra.co.nz; mncates@xtra.co.nz; samcross@xtra.co.nz; mark.d@xtra.co.nz; zeovitnz@paradise.net.nz; KAYEMANN@ihug.co.nz; tvcam@xnet.co.nz; dana-tenacity@usa.net; kev.mel@xtra.co.nz; e-statics@e-statics.net; Barham@xtra.co.nz
Cc: 'andy landy'; 'luc dubois'; 'stefano sirri'; 'John Goldsmith'; 'thomas paasch'; 'pieterjan dwarhuis'
Subject: RE: AW: IACA Ballot on hydrofoils

 

Hi,

I think Murray and myself have similar views about the A-class direction, but we differ on the problem and how to solve it.

 

The major problem is that ANY canted centreboard or rudder produces vertical lift, therefore it has a hydrofoil effect. If the class is serious about banning Hydrofoils then it HAS to ban canted and curved centreboards. Otherwise, what does a measurer do when someone turns up to a regatta with vertical boards and a protest flag? It will be a mess.

 

" a. No part of each hull or hull appendages below the waterline shall be less than 0.75 meters from the centre line.  " 

This is VERY restrictive for foiling - read Luc's technical analysis. With this rule you can foil, but the boat will be slow. Similarly to the Canadian C-class on foils - it was half the speed upwind, and 3/4 downwind of a regular boat. The photos looked good though :)

 

Murray wrote:

"If you can fit the parts of the tee foil down through the centre board case there is no reason you couldn’t assemble them back together again under the hull. "

This is incorrect  - a yacht can't be raced in a different condition to the way it is measured.

 

Fixed hydrofoils are allowed as are hydrofoils attached only to the beams.

Hydrofoils attached to the beams arenot allowed due to rule 1: "A catamaran is defined as a two-hulled sailing boat..."  

 

If you take this literally then transom hung rudders are not allowed as they don’t meet either criterion. "

No problem, transom hung rudders are inserted from the top onto the gudgeons.

 

In summary,

- boats can't realistically fly with the Rule 8a and this was shown at the Belmont worlds where no curved boards flew.

- the reality is the class has allowed hydrofoils for many years now - either change the boats, or change the rule.

 

I'm happy to answer any questions,

regards

Mike

NZL 245